21 Aug 2010:


Originally Posted by saidrick

I will be riding China Camp tomorrow and was wondering if the "secret Trail / Dream catcher trail" is still in existence at the top of the mountain?

The one I am referring to will, usually, dump you out on San Pedro rd near the 7-11.

Any thoughts or advice would be great, thanks Cedric

My thoughts are you should not ask on a public forum...my advice would be to look for yourself

Have fun!


4 Jun 2010:



mtbr member

sanjuro's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 1,697

I am also involved with trail advocacy, with the SBTS and the SF Urban Riders.

I shouldn't act like I'm blasting down Repack and I've just run over the president of the Sierra Club.

I mostly ride in the evening, at reasonable speeds, and I try to be respectful to all trailusers.

I know many riders won't poach at all, just like some won't run red lights. I'm not advocating it for anyone, but I will do it myself.

But if I do ride illegally, I am not trying to hurt anyone. Maybe committing an infraction is harmful, but I don't feel like it when I ride.


3 Jun 2010:


mtbr member

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 69


Originally Posted by michaelsnead

A simple conclusion is that you’re attempting to derail the thread with a red herring.

I'm not trying to derail the thread. This thread is - in part - about why so many people hate mountain bikers, which leads to incidents like the topic of this thread. My view is that bikers bring this on themselves by a lack of civility - which this thread illustrates. Bikers (as a group) don't listen very well to anyone else's point of view about biking on the trails. They often don't consider the opinions of hikers or equestrians when they decide when or where or how to ride. (They usually only consider it in how it affects their own ride, not how their riding affects others enjoyment of the trails.) They don't think about the damage they do to their own community when they poach, and leave behind evidence (tire marks) that hikers and equestrians will see for days or weeks even when they don't personally encounter anyone on the trail while poaching.

I'm saying that if we try harder to listen to others, to be good citizens both online and on the trails, it will serve our mountain biking needs better in the long run. To selfishly go out riding where one shouldn't ride (e.g. poaching) solely for temporary personal pleasure and damage the community's standing among other groups leads to long term damage that is hard to overcome.

I've spoken up for bike use at land use meetings. I've had my comments aired on TV, speaking up as an equestrian who was FOR opening up more trails for bikes. When has anyone in this community ever spoken up at a land use meeting so support something OTHER than mountain biking, particularly for a group that isn't always totally supportive of biking? For instance, have any of you ever spoken up for equestrian use? Probably not.

I think that's misguided and not going to achieve what you want. I think that approach is - in part - what led to the topic of this thread. Sure, Mike V is a nut. But he represents a very unhappy group, and that group is vocal. They come to meetings, they are ANGRY about riders poaching. Bikers create that situation by breaking the rules and then act all surprised and mystified about why people don't like bikes on the trail.


Thu, 12 Dec 2010:


Must Ride In Rain


Fri, 10 Dec 2010:


By Pragmatist, 12-10-10

Geo, thanks for your response. We're going to have to agree to disagree. If you spend any time around serious mountain bikers (as opposed to the type who happen to have a mountain bike in the basement and ride it on a dirt road or easy trail every couple of weeks or less often), you'll learn that our bicycle is integral to our reason for being. It's a whole lifestyle and a passion, not just a hobby like stamp-collecting, model trains, or ferret ownership. This may seem odd or foolish to you, but it's a fact. And it's why the argument we can always walk in Wilderness won't persuade us. Actually, I have done a lot of walking in Wilderness. It's not the same thing at all; it offers nice scenery but little personal challenge and relatively minimal physical fitness benefits.


Fri, 10 Dec 2010:
From: "Mark Kintz" <mark@fc-cpa.com>
To: "'Monterey Off-Road Cycling Association \(MORCA\)'" <morca@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "'Morgan, Eric'" <Eric_Morgan@ca.blm.gov>
Subject: [morca] Trailwork Report

Before dusk last night I rode out to see how the Burmese and 49/50 trailwork is proceeding.  The Burmese/Barloy junction has been contoured to prevent further erosion and work on the flats continues.
I'm happy to report that work on both sides of Trail 49 and Trail 50 is done. Both trails have been re-cut and dragged to re-establish the bench width and outslope.
Like when these trails were first built, it's going to take a few days for natural settling/compaction to take place before the trails are rideable. This morning's unexpected rain is a huge stroke of good-fortune to that end.
Both Trail 49's and 50's are closed for a few days to allow the sandy soil to compact.  "Closed" signs are placed at all of the trailheads, and the BLM staff asks for our patience in the meantime.
After all of the recent unhappy outcry about the Thankgiving weekend event, it would be a sad irony if impatient locals jumped-the-gun and in doing so, re-cut the center groove that made this trail work necessary [proof that mountain biking destroys trails and makes trail work necessary. Mike].
Let's allow this Christmas gift to stay wrapped under the tree for a few days!


Sat, October 31, 2009:

Bike rides with Ben Kurtz (left) always seemed to end at the hospital. Peter Frick-Wright (right) was the one who crashed after this photo at Newberry Crater.


Tue, 30 Nov 2010:

Fort Ord and the locals that love it....

Over the weekend, the rain fell and the locals in Toro Park/Salinas rushed in to fill ruts and smooth the bumps from the winter in Fort Ord.. Well, the rain hadn't even stopped and Ord was overtaken by 2 ton post hole diggers by the dozens.. yes horses.. We've all seen pictures of people on horses from the weekend by now, but when is enough enough?

Going back to when Francois was in town over the weekend, this thread stopped my heart from beating.. and of course the anger flows like the mighty Miss'..


I mean, the backs of the secret [i.e., illegal. Mike] trail crews still ache, and all that work for what? When does BLM break the news that they love horses and not just mountain bikers? It's embarassing that a website like mtbr.com broadcasts the drama between the trail users in our area when it should be celebrated. And I for one am sorry for that peeps..

Anyway, I don't know the author of this letter personally, but good on you dude for saying something... the whole mtbr world now hears your woes..


Thanks to the trail ninjas hiding in the trees with pick-axes and shovels, working the soil and saying F- the BLM and their "trail plans".. the locals appreciate you, the goat trail appreciates you, and I appreciate you!

Thanks and Hell Yeah Foo (HYF)-



Sun, 14 Nov 2010:
From: Paul Nam <vocinam@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ROMP] Henry W. Coe trail work and 100 mile Coe ride [Try WALKING that far in a day! This shows how much greater mountain biking’s impacts are than hiking’s. Mike]
To: mtb-romp@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/mtb-romp/subscribe?hl=en_US>, <mailto:mtb-romp+subscribe@googlegroups.com>

It was a remarkable 2nd Saturday trail work day in Coe.
We "finished" our work on Hoover Lake Trail. The area around Hoover Lake is a sort of hub in the middle of the park on a high plateau which contains an air-strip. It here that some of the best wildflower displays can be found on any given spring. The Hoover lake Trail combined with the White Tank Trail makes for a nice 3 mile single-track experience.
Thanks to ROMP and the PRA for helping pay for the snacks and refreshments!
More remarkable were the three riders (regular Coe trail work volunteers who skipped the trail work on Saturday) who embarked on The Hard COEre 100. This is a hundred miles of Henry W. Coe and 20,000 feet of climbing. They completed it! They began at 12:00 am Saturday morning and returned at around 21:20 pm on Saturday evening.
I believe this is the longest ride in Coe, ever.

May, 2003:

Mr(Matthew)Bond (a Director of the NSMBA):

No, contrary to the beliefs of some, heavily eroded and chewed up chunder sections do not get reclaimed by the forest if people stop riding on them. They have eroded so much that they are now a watercourse, and require a significant amount of effort to decommission properly to prevent further erosion. … The trails we now ride are heavily eroded because they are too steep, weren't built with sustainability in mind, and were not constructed to handle the current level of traffic they receive.


Mon, 18 Oct 2010:
Subject: [morca] FW: 2010 Fall/Winter Mountain Biking Marin
From: "Henrietta Stern" <Henri@mpwmd.dst.ca.us>
To: "Monterey Off-Road Cycling Association \(MORCA\)" <morca@googlegroups.com>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/morca/subscribe?hl=en_US>
FYI-- re rides as well as deals on bike shoes and bikes

From: Mountain Biking Marin [mailto:celiag@mountainbikingmarin.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:26 PM
To: Henrietta Stern
Subject: 2010 Fall/Winter Mountain Biking Marin

Having trouble viewing this email? Click here

Mountain Biking Marin
The Ultimate Bike Experience
October 2010
Hi Henrietta,

Fall is here and winter is very close so the raining season is about to start. But don't let the rain shy you away from the trails and your mountain bike.  You can ride Marin trails all year long! Ride in between storms, or wear rain gear to ride under the water drops, or ride a single speed! And look for the trails and fire roads that drain better to avoid muddy conditions (it's good for the trails and for your bike).  Elderidge and Old Rail Road in Mt. Tam, Marincello and Old Spring in the Headlands and some trails in China Camp are good to ride during the raining season.

Our private clinics and tours are available throughout the whole year but our group clinics will resume next year in the Spring around March 2011. Stay tuned!

See you on the soon to be wet trails!


Celia Graterol
Mountain Biking Marin


Sun, 17 Oct 2010:
Ensure mountain access for all

By Dave Norona, Special To North Shore NewsOctober 17, 2010
As an adventure athlete, I spend a great deal of my time outdoors.

Heck, it was my reason for moving to the North Shore in 1990 since my home in Kerrisdale was just too far from the heavenly local mountains.

Ever since moving to the Shore I've spent countless hours exploring the trails on cross-country skis, running shoes and my mountain bike. I've also spent a lot of time paddling the many nooks and crannies along the waterline below the mountains. It's all been amazing and I continue to meet so many incredible people out and about having a great time.

To me the mountains are for everyone, not just locals or one specific user group, they belong to us all. It doesn't matter if you live here or not, the mountains are for anyone interested in heading out and exploring them.

There are a few people out there though who don't want to share the mountains with others. They have been called NIMBYs (Not in my backyard) and rightfully so. They complain that certain user groups destroy habitats, destroy the trails and, in effect, destroy the forest or the mountain experience. Again, the mountains belong to everyone. First off, it doesn't matter if you walk, jog, bike or horseback ride, every one of us destroys the trails. All trails start to erode at some point. On the North Shore, this is due to the soft terrain and the wicked rain we get that washes down the loose soil. So, the question is, should we build trails for hikers, bikers, cross-country skiers, snowshoers, and ski and snowboarders?

In my opinion, the answer to this question is a resounding yes. Having trails throughout the North Shore mountains allows people to experience nature. It allows them to get away from the city and enjoy time with their kids and significant others.

The value of these trails is very significant. Just check out the trails on any given weekend and see how many families are out enjoying them, whether on the Grouse Grind, Baden Powell, Rice Lake or the numerous mountain bike trails on Cypress, Seymour and Fromme.

Trails have also brought user groups together. The North Shore Mountain Bike Association, for instance, has been a world leader in creating new trails and fixing them up before they erode (??) so more users can enjoy them. The new work on the Grouse Grind is also a perfect example of how we can repair and design trails so that they don't erode and that trail is widely used every summer.(Why do they have to keep "repairing" the Grouse Grind, every couple years, if it doesn't erode?)

I'm not suggesting that we should build trails everywhere; however, the trails on the North Shore mountains take up such a small percentage of the overall land. By working and enjoying the trails together we can all learn a little more about Mother Nature and do it in the many ways we all enjoy!

Adventurer Dave Norona reminds everyone to share the trails and leave your non-sharing ideas back in the cave from which you crawled out of! His daily adventures are supported by PowerBar, Marin Bikes and Merrell.

I fired off a letter to the editor, keeping it as short and sweet as I could muster...;)

Dear Editor:
My goodness, what bee flew into Dave Norona's full-face helmet? He literally bristles with vitriol inside his latest column, "Ensure mountain access for all" (October 17, 2010). But is he really insisting that we should also have to allow "access" for every kind of machine someone chooses to bring into the mountains? His uncivil jab at so-called NIMBYs with his comment, "...leave your non-sharing ideas back in the cave from which you crawled out of!" clearly exposes Norona's bad attitude towards those of us who may not agree with him and his fellow adventurers.

Oh, Dave Norona can wag his finger at inclement weather riding, debunk habitat destruction, while suggesting trails should not be built "everywhere", etc.  But the truth is, Norona has long felt that the restrictions that get in the way of his ultimate adventure high, whether on a mountain bike, motor bike, snowmobile, etc, do not apply to him. He has even written of his rule-bending antics in past columns! I have to question why the North Shore News continues to keep this highly offensive scofflaw on their payroll?

 Monica Craver
(Want to wager a bet that the North Shore News will publish my letter, but may omit the second paragraph, altogether? -- this newspaper is notorious for its hack and slash editing)

Sun, 2 Oct 2010:


Is this a problem with teh culture of mountainbiking, that it revolves around instant gratification and that not enough people care enough about the forest, the trails and the rest?


Mon, 13 Sep 2010:
From: "voiceux" <bmarshall3rd@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: behavior problems at St Edward State Park

It amazes me that people think rules don't apply to them. I hope the rangers are addressing the walkers with off leash dogs in there, too, since I run across this pretty much every time I'm there (a couple of times a week). I grit my teeth and smile and say thank you as I pass. I do wonder at the likelihood of people who flaunt park rules being a member of EMBA. It seems unlikely there are the sort who join a group like ours.

Sat, 11 Sep 2010:
From: "mwestra2" <mwestra2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Destruction at Duthie -- New Drop Zone & Beginner StepUps Closed [mountain bikers even destroy trails built by other mountain bikers! Mike]

Sometime Thurs afternoon a couple of kids destroyed the new beginner step-ups and built their own steeper/bigger lip. So Nolan, Ralph, Kevin & I spent our time yesterday fixing that mess -- instead of building something new. Total waste of time and money that could have been put to better use... all for a few spoiled little brats' few minutes of fun.

With all the new dirt, we have to close the line until we get another wet followed by dry period. Hopefully we'll have it re-opened by next weekend. Please spread the word that it's closed.

Help us put a stop to this crap. If you were riding Duthie on Thursday afternoon and saw anything, please contact me or Kevin. When we find out who did it, we're going to turn it over to King County. In the future, if you see anyone building on a jump line and you don't recognize them, please ask them who they are. Take pictures if you're suspicious. Or call me or Kevin.

Doing this on a beginner line is pretty serious. Several riders I talked to who it hit Thursday evening said it bucked them by surprise. This is the single biggest threat to Duthie.

And it's not just misdemeanor vandalism... when it "knowingly and without authority interferes with any property in a manner so as to endanger others", it can become criminal damage to property.

We'll get signs up, we'll do better locking up the tools, we've added pavers to the lip to make it more difficult to mess with. We'll keep on it, but we need your help to keep an eye out for this kinda #$%**! Thanks

Wed, 8 Sep 2010:
To: mountain bike <BBTCmembers@yahoogroups.com>
From: Tom Fitzpatrick <t-cfitz2@comcast.net>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: behavior problems at St Edward State Park

Tonight I attended a meeting at the park and afterward the Ranger pulled me aside to mention two problems that are rapidly becoming serious in his view. First, some party or parties unknown started building unauthorized trails in a big way in the northwest corner of the park, starting off Arrowhead Trail. It appears they are using a chainsaw or other power equipment. The staff promises severe sanctions when he/they are caught.

Second, mountain bike riders have been violating two laws relating to dogs in the park: they're running them off-leash, and they're not picking up their messes. The Ranger has written 8 tickets so far this month.

The Ranger says if these behaviors continue, it could jeopardize our access to the park's trails. Saint Edward State Park was one of our first success stories in the metro area back in the early 1990s working with land managers to resolve user conflicts and maintain mountain bike access to a heavily used trail system. Speaking only for myself, if I find out who's building the rogue trails here, I'll turn them in.

Tom Fitzpatrick

Fri, 20 Aug 2010:
To: bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com
From: Tom C <thomasmail360@yahoo.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Rogue Trail Builders (long)

The Newberry Hill Heritage Park in Kitsap County is a great example of what can be accomplished when a group of volunteers is willing to work hard and cooperate with a municipality to create a public recreation site.
Mountain bikers, horsemen, hikers, trail-runners, students, and several community groups have begun to craft the 1100 acres of forest and wetlands into an accessible sanctuary just minutes from Silverdale. A stewardship group is leading this effort. For the past year, we have been working with county parks and recreation staff conducting public meetings to assess people’s concerns and interests for the park. We are juggling the desires of many user groups with the restrictions placed upon the property by the county, the Department of Fish and Wildlife, the Recreation and Conservation Office, local tribes, and the Central Kitsap School District, which has a secondary school in the middle of the park.
Part of our success is a result of our willingness to work honestly and collegially with the land manager, Kitsap County. We have agreed to get prior permission from the county for all planning and construction of trails, and we are dedicated to following IMBA standards.
On Wednesday, one of our stewards came upon a group of four mountain bikers with hand tools. He identified himself as a park steward and asked them what they were doing, and they replied, “We’re building a jump. They kicked us out of Banner Forest, so we’re going to make our stuff here.”
This kind of rogue trail building reflects poorly upon all mountain bikers. Some of my fellow stewards even asked me if I were a part of it. Much of the conflict between user groups on the trails we ride results from a few “bad eggs” unwilling to participate in an open, public dialogue, which is admittedly sometimes slow and frustrating. However, a public park is like a good marriage; you don’t always get everything your way, but in the end, the result is often a beautiful synergy, a whole greater than the sum of its parts.
IMBA recommends adequate signage or split trails to accommodate riders with varied skill levels on trails with challenging elements. If the bikers building these elements want them legitimately included in the park, they need to do so by getting involved in the stewardship group. They need to attend meetings and join the trail committee. They need to sit at the table with all the other park users and reach some sort of agreement. Maverick bikers who just go out with tools and build unauthorized trails or elements create waves of conflicts.
At this point, we’re faced with the daunting task of constructing and maintaining miles of trails for the park and at the same time deconstructing and closing trails made by pirate builders. These guys know we don’t have enough time to undo everything they’re building while simultaneously trying to create a park that meets the needs of a larger community. It is selfish, lazy, and cowardly of them to not address the stewardship group with their desires and to try to reach a compromise that accommodates everyone’s needs as best as possible.
I encourage all mountain bikers to check with land managers or stewardship groups before working on public or private property. Often, the unauthorized work will affect many more people and user groups than imagined, and it reflects poorly on all of us.
Tom Coleman, President, Newberry Hill Heritage Park Stewardship Group

Sat, 25 Sep 2010:

Mountain biking at night is scary-good, just don't forget your lumens

Published: Friday, September 24, 2010, 7:44 PM     Updated: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 8:17 AM

Peter Frick-Wright, Special to The Oreg...

If you haven't been playing outside in the dark lately, you have no idea what you have been missing. Turn down the lights on your favorite outdoor sport, and everything becomes slightly more difficult and slightly more fun. On a bike, every rock and root gives an extra pop of adrenaline. On a hike, each snapping twig is attention-worthy as animals feel comfortable getting slightly closer. Darkness heightens your senses, sharpens your nerves and makes you feel more alive. And isn't that why you went outside in the first place?

Mountain biking at night

We've been mountain biking at night before, just never on purpose. For more rides than I'd like to admit, Kyle Anderson and I overestimated the daylight and ended our ride zipping down hazardous single-track back to the car in the dark.

We started to joke about bringing headlamps next time, but then we'd forget. And then we'd get kind of mad about forgetting.

We rode the Syncline trails in the Columbia River Gorge without being able to see upcoming corners and abandoned the McKenzie River Trail three miles from the bottom when it became safer to ride on the highway shoulder than between invisible trees. A few weeks later, at a pitch-black Post Canyon in Hood River, we found ourselves shouting into the darkness to scare away what was probably a Sasquatch.

It wasn't until a ride near Mount Hood, when we tried to squeeze an extra lap into an afternoon on the Sandy Ridge trails, that night mountain biking became fun for Kyle and me. Already familiar with the trail, we found that in the darkness we didn't brake for what we couldn't see and that if we just leaned back and let our suspension handle the bumpy ride, we would make it over most obstacles anyway. The trail became more challenging and more fun; adrenaline flooded our bodies in above-average quantities.

Top of Form

Bottom of Form

Tonight, we've come to the trails near Rocky Butte Road in Scappoose intending to ride in the dark, looking for that same thrill. The sun is going down and we've already done a lap to get the lay of the land -- all that's left now are narrow switchbacks through tight trees and blind corners on a twisting trail that, we're now realizing, is much tighter, more twisted and much darker than anything we've ever ridden at night before.

Night biking grew out of the adventure racing, where competitors run, climb, bike and hike often for 24 hours or more.

"As the technology has progressed, it has opened the door to a lot of people," said Mike Ely of Nite Rider bike lights of San Diego. "The original bike lighting systems were halogen, and they were pretty inefficient. Now, the lights are LEDs, and the batteries are lithium-ion." Lighting technology improved as competitors looked for smaller, brighter lights, and some bikers eventually decided they'd rather go out for a fun night ride than suffer through an entire adventure race.

We're not looking to suffer either. This time, we tried to come prepared. Between our bike lights and headlamps, we have the recommended 300 to 400 lumens for single-track, and I'm wearing a T-shirt with a glow-in-the-dark Yoda on it. But, Ely informed me, there's slightly more to it than that.

When we talked, Ely introduced me to lighting issues I never would have anticipated. For example, where my original lighting strategy could be summed up as brighter is better, Ely said that light placement also matters quite a bit and every choice has its drawbacks.

Helmet-mounted lights reflect off dust and fog straight back into your eyes. Lights clamped onto handlebars are better in that regard, but they are stuck following your wheel's direction and can't look ahead to a corner like a headlamp can.

It's an issue debated in bike shops and on Internet forums, and everyone seems to have their own pet theory.

One commenter wrote that his best results came from mounting a headlamp at his waist, by stepping through the elastic bands and wearing it like a jockstrap.

It's a surprisingly lively debate considering that night biking is hardly a regular weekend activity for most mountain bikers. But Ely said he's not surprised. "It used to be $300 to $400 for an effective riding light -- now it's 100 to 200 bucks."

And after the first few turns in Scappoose -- with one light clamped to our handlebars and another strapped to our helmet -- the lights are worth every penny, or they would be if we weren't borrowing them from my editor. The trail is already narrow and fun, but ridden at night it shrinks even further, down to the width of the ball of light out ahead. Roots and rocks are complete surprises; corners are last-minute decisions; branches whistle by unseen. It may sound more dangerous, but it makes slower riding feel much faster.

While it feels like we're whipping through the woods at breakneck speeds, we're probably going about 11 mph. Little boosts into the air feel worthy of trumpets, and no matter how slowly we go around a tree, there's a sense of accomplishment for having made it.

It's not until we're nearly back to the car that the dark poses any problem at all. Hiking up a steep section, Kyle stops, pointing his handlebars out into the forest. "Did you hear that?" he asks, scanning back and forth. "That was a Sasquatch."

-- Peter Frick-Wright


Fri, 24 Sep 2010:

Dear Editor:

OK, I will keep this one brief. To Sloan Shoemaker and all Hidden Gems proponents: Balcony is NOT a new trail. I discovered and rode it 15 years ago, and only recently have mountain bikers improved it for sustainability. I have no idea how long it has been there, but I am really sick and tired of all these “Wilderness” people who actually believe a mountain bike can destroy the life of an elk or bear any more than a hiker can. “Out of control” community, according to Shoemaker. All I see as “out of control” is these people's ignorance of mountain bike ethics and their Puritan outlook on wilderness. Cameras to catch the witches, squirrel-killers, and bear den raiders, riding our evil broomsticks through the forsaken wilderness. I suppose, as an Aspen High School graduate, I have been proudly wearing a Scarlet Letter “A” for about 25 years. I can't wait to find those cameras to flip a bird at 'em. Now that's wilderness.

Chris “Dogger” Anderson



Sun, 11 July 2010:


To whoever is ripping down the DNV closed trails signs!!

On our ride up we saw the closed trail signs on jerry rig and pink starfish ripped down and thrown into the bushes, to whoever is stupid enough to do that cut it out its super lame its closed for a reason. Hey I know the DNV isnt in everybodys good books but fromme is gonna get improved and thats a good thing for the mountain. Ripping down closed signs and riding trails like pink starfish when its back under construction is disrespectful there's plenty of trails that you could ride for the time being. Sorry for the long rant but I dont want to see anyone getting hurt on unfinished stunts/trail..


Wed, 23 Jun 2010:
To: BBTC listserve <bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com>
From: g Gonzz <mtb_gonzo@hotmail.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RatPac

anybody know if the gate(s) are open and can you shuttle ratpac ? ["Downhill" mountain bikers need someone to carry the to the top of the hill! And mountain bikers claim not to be lazy?! Mike]

Fri, 18 Jun 2010:
To: bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com
From: Jack DeGuiseppi <jackd@eskimo.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Road to sunrise


The road to Sunrise is always a fun easy scenic ride to do before they
officially open the road to cars BUT:

Seems that it is closed to bikes most every day between 7:30 and 4:30.
Some friends were riding there on Sunday - went round the gate, saw the
sign (that says closed to bikes) but went ahead anyway -- Sunday and all..

2 miles in they came to a construction worker running a road grader who
asked them, "Didn't you see the sign?" they said they DID see the sign.
"This road is closed. I am calling the Park police." They dutifully
turned around and road up to White river campground, rode around some more
and went back to their car -- There they were met by a NP Ranger who asked
them if they were the 2 bikers who were on the road. They said yes. He
ended up writing them a $124 ticket(each). No warning.

Lesson learned? -- Don't say you saw the sign. Say "What sign?" When
the cops approach you and ask, "Are you the two bikers who were up the
road?" say, "What road?"

C'mon people - remember your teenage responses and you will probably avoid
a ticket.

Jackd - tongue slightly in cheek

Mon, June 14, 2010:

Ride hard, take chances

Lars Thomsen
Trail Head Cyclery
14390 Union Ave
San Jose, CA 95124
p. (408) 369-9666
f. (408) 369-9630


[mountain bikers pretend to oppose, but actually excuse, illegal trailbuilding and illegal mountain biking]:


As much as I disrespect vigilante trail building, sometimes its the swift kick in the butt needed to get the powers that be to recognize a problem. I know many will disagree, but you should check out the Freedom Riders movie and see how that turned out.


Tue, Feb 16, 2010:

From: Mark Davidson <mark@mbosc.org>
This is important.

According to Ted Stroll, the latest issue of Outside magazine advocates
lifting the bike ban in Wilderness areas. I recommend that all mountain
bikers interested in protecting the land yet still allow recreational access
advocate ending the bike ban in Wilderness areas.

We have a huge chunk of Wilderness in Big Basin and if it was over turned
then at least there may be the possibility of having  some nice connector
trails from the ridge lines down into Waddell Creek. This would give some
alternative coastal access routes. Realistically, this could save a
significant amount of re-routing/re-designation of the McCreary Ridge trail.

Also, as long as bikes are banned from Wilderness many mountain bikers
(myself included) will NEVER advocate for the expansion of Wilderness areas.
If the ban is over turned then I would definitely reconsider my position.

Please consider taking action on this issue.

Thank you.


Mon, 8 Feb 2010:

Cc: bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com
To: anthony@lifetime.oregonstate.edu, Anthony Cree <anthony.cree@gmail.com>
From: Myers Brian <igobybike@gmail.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Trail damage at Tokul

We parked at the roundabout in fall city and pedaled up the SVT to 
Griffin and went right up the road as always.  There were some big 
boulders that had been placed in the middle of the road maybe half way 
up, but they where easy to ride around.  There were also a few no 
trespassing signs, but I didn't see those :)  We rode up Mud Hill to 
Beer Run to Conspiracy, then back up the road and down Beer Run and 
Mud Hill, then across the creek and up into Tokul West.


Sat, 6 Feb 2010:

[illegal trail construction on the North Shore of Vancouver, BC. Mike] I have a 2 large stringers that need transporting from mystery location X to mystery location Y. With 4 people, the job should take about an hour. Meet at the top of Natural High on Sunday February 7th @ 10:30. I will have the log carriers which makes the job less awkward. I am flexible on the time if it something different works better.


Fri, 29 Jan 2010:
Subject: Re: [morca] Why all the Gravel and work on Ord?
From: Mike Larucci <mikelarucci@gmail.com>
To: S-Works Rider <montereybaycycling@comcast.net>
Cc: "Monterey Off-Road Cycling Association (MORCA)" <morca@googlegroups.com>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/morca/subscribe?hl=en_US>

Now we have BLM patrolling at night to give tickets to night riders. BLM is ruining this land and taking away our freedom. If a man wants to ride at night, let him take responsibility for his own injury or demise!!!!!!


Mon, 25 Jan 2010:
To: Enduro <dougwalsh@centurytel.net>
Cc: bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com
From: Chelsea McMahon <Chelsea.Mn@gmail.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: 2nd bog bridge

[So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored. Mike]


The only time I was able to ride almost all of the bog was when we had those
temps in the teens.  It was such a thrill to fly through there!

Mon, 25 Jan 2010:
To: bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com
From: Myers Brian <igobybike@gmail.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: 2nd bog bridge

[So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored. Mike]


No need for a bridge. If you just go really fast and pull up, you can
make the whole thing.


Sat, 23 Jan 2010:

From: Ross Finlayson <finlayson@live555.com>

Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?


[So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored. Mike]


At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of days after a major rainy spell.  Most of the trails are too muddy to ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK even after heavy rain.


In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main (Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point overlook and back.  But even that fireroad often gets very wet.


My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved road.  This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of heavy rain, such as we had this past week.


So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?




Thu, 7 Jan 2010:
To: mountain bike <bbtcmembers@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: raymondtrainerironmind@yahoogroups.com
From: raymond hobi <raymondtrainerironmind@yahoo.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bbtcmembers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: have you ever done this?

This is one of those riding stories that's just too good to keep to myself. So I was on the road bike doing a training ride. I had just turned right off of 116th (Bellevue) onto Bel-Red Rd. Just before crossing over I-405 I noticed a sign that read "Sidewalk closed. Use alter-
nate route". When I ride this stretch half the time I stay in the lane (non rush hour) and the
other half I ride the (seldom if ever used) sidewalk. If I had been riding the mtn bike I simply
would have jumped off the sidewalk curb (after traffic was clear, of course). So instead, I
kept riding the sidewalk, looking for the supposed obstruction. Finally, after about a quarter mile, I saw the "construction" which was a couple of orange cones placed about
6 feet apart on the sidewalk, but with no obvious signs of any work having been done
(ie;no holes, the sidewalk was in fact perfectly smooth.....maybe a little TOO smooth!
Can you guess what happened next? That's right, as my front tire went past the first cone,
SLOOOSH! it plowed right into WET CEMENT!! Mind you, it sure didn't look wet! Luckily,
I was only going about walking speed, so I was able to stop before my rear wheel went in
and I would have had to put my foot down (in the cement). To say the least, I was just
"slightly" surprised. Now here's my question, don't you think it would have been prudent
for the work crew who did this to at least put up a little cardboard sign that said "Wet
Cement"?. For one thing, that's a $600 wheel, and for another, I'm sure they weren't all
that thrilled when they saw what happened! Now before you guys respond with something
like, "Well, you shouldn't have been riding on the sidewalk." let me remind you that I've been riding my bike almost every day for 25 years and I've never been in an accident involving a vehicle.  I think that I'll take my own advice on where and under what
circumstances I ride, regardless of whether it's "technically" against the law. I've also
witnessed cyclists going under 10 mph riding right in the middle of the lane on a busy
street during rush hour and holding up 20 cars making everyone angry. Sure, it's techni-
cally legal, but is it safe? Just once I'd like to get some replies that weren't atomatically
negative and smart ass. So give it a shot (if you dare)!