Fri, 30 Dec 2011:
From: brian _ <>
Subject: RE: Houston....We Have A Problem!

i think your first instinct of asking "what the hell do you think you're doing" was right on the money... I would have loved to hear how you asked them to leave at once with the threat of calling the police.
I think contacting the land owners is a bad idea in this case, they will most likely close the entire area when they realize that "there is a problem"... ["we criminals must stick together!"]† If you had hikers and motorcycle user groups squabbling over and tearing up your land, you would put a chain link fence around the whole thing. (well, lots of people would anyway) Why risk it?
  the proven method of discouraging quads and motos is to install chokes, most of the time its necessary to drill holes in a few 3 man logs (big friggen logs) and pound 8 foot lengths of re-bar all the way through and in the ground, then wire or chain down more logs on top of your big logs to prevent the machines from riding over the top, if you don't use rebar, chain and wire the choke is to easy to remove. i have also had to nail bicycle chain down to keep them from cutting the choke out with a chain saw. for icing on your cake, you can install "No Motorized Vehicles" signs on the public rightaway facing the trailhead to really drive the point home.


Fri, 30 Dec 2011:
Subject: Re: Houston....We Have A Problem!

That's too bad to hear Raymond. Probably best bet would be to let the property owners know - but if you look at the King County property viewer tool, you'll find that there are a variety of owners...Aerojet, Microsoft, Physio Control, etc. So it would take a bunch of legwork to let all the owners know and to get them to do anything about it.

I'll predict what is going to happen here. These yahoos are going to figure out pretty quickly that it is a lot of work to widen these trails out and will give up, leaving them in a messy state. Or they will quickly get tired of arriving at home with their ATV, themselves and their AM/PM brews covered in mud and will go away, leaving their mess behind.

In either case, I don't think that there is much you can do about it directly. Contact the property owners if you want otherwise I would let it run it's course. This is the problem with putting time and effort into gray [illegal] trails...


Sat, Dec 24, 2011:


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Originally Posted by icantdrive65 View Post

If you are going to ride unsanctioned trails, don't get hurt..

And if you do get hurt, do us all a favor and crawl out, or have your riding buddies drag you out to the nearest legal trail. It could be the most honorable and courageous thing you can do for other riders.
Crashing sux but it happens to everyone. Doing so on a trail your not supposed to be on makes you look like an @$$hole if you need to be rescued. It draws attention to the trail being poached which means they'll start watching it closer, which, in turn causes problems for other riders and arms the haters with more ammunition.


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Originally Posted by Biker_Scout_Sparky View Post

And if you do get hurt, do us all a favor and crawl out, or have your riding buddies drag you out to the nearest legal trail. It could be the most honorable and courageous thing you can do for other riders....

Holy Cow! While I agree with a lot of what you wrote after this, I think encouraging folks to drag an injured person out rather than bring in competent medical help is pretty irresponsible. Moving a badly hurt person in some circumstances could turn a treatable, recoverable injury into permanent damage or death.


Sunday, Dec. 25, 2011:

"With mountain biking, you have to focus on what's in front of you or you're going to crash," she said. "Every time I'm out on my bike, it's a mix of fear and adrenaline, but I absolutely love it." Kellie Muddiman


Mon, 16 Dec 2011:

Please respect the park

Published: December 16, 2011 1:00 AM

First of all I should state I am a person who mountain bikes and also hikes in Kal Park. Second of all, if I thought it was only a small percentage of bike riders that were a problem I would not even take the time to write this letter. And third of all, I do recognize there are people who show respect to the park and others, no matter how they choose to travel in the park.

That being said, I would like to comment on the lack of respect many mountain bikers seem to show towards Kal Park and the other people who utilize the trail system, mainly people who hike and ride horses. I have had the gift of being able to use the trail system in the park for many years now and have seen a change in the behaviour of the people who bike. Many, and I mean many, will not slow down or give much clearance to other trail users on flat trails or downhill grades.

It seems that they feel they are entitled to the entire trail and to come within inches of others at high speeds just because they choose to be on a bike. They also seem to feel it is okay to widen existing trails, from single track to car width size trails, because they do not feel they should ride in the eroded gouges they have created.

So they just move over a few feet and create another gouge and when that is eroded too deep they just move over again and again. This has left a lot of the park looking more like a 4 x 4 driving trail than a part of nature. The worst instances I have personally witnessed, too many times to count, is the decision by the bike riders, and I must admit, some hikers, to decide they would like to create their own special new path to suit their own needs.

This is the worst show of disrespect anyone could create in the park. I am sure these people do not understand, should every person, who bikes, horseback rides and/or hikes decide to create a new path just to accommodate them, there will soon be no park, just a thousand trails with no animals or vegetation left.

Go take a look at the front side of Knox mountain in Kelowna and you may see the future of Kal park. Every 20 feet there is another trail crossing the one you are on. They are just trying to salvage it now and hopefully it is not too late.

It may be also just a matter of time before someone is seriously injured, by those who feel they own the trails because they are travelling at the highest speeds, and need to show no respect to other persons who utilize the trail system.

Most of the people I talk to, who are hiking and horseback riding, do not have much liking for the bike riders, who could care less about the long-term vitality of the park, as long as they get to do what they want at the expense and safety of all others, including the long-term health of the park itself.

Bike riders beware. I am sure someday, someone will do a study on the damage we choose to cause, and our days of having the privilege to ride in the park may be numbered for all of us who like to pedal.

Or if people start getting injured, I am sure, should they choose to sue both the rider and the provincial government, that the days of riding in the park will be numbered. And remember, it is not a right, it is a privilege that has been granted to us.

M. Sandberg, Vernon

This letter writer has pretty much summed up what you, I and others have been stating for years...
Excellent that this comes from a mountain biker this time around. The tide is rising. Take care, and keep your eye open for more such letters coming out from others like M. Sandberg. This is the last one I will be sending. But it is a nice way for me to be able to "sign off" this cause. People are starting to notice the damage done, and bad behaviour is not improving. No kidding, eh?

[A friend]


Fri, 16 Dec 2011:
From: Linda Bikes <>
Subject: Re: Is Anybody Out There?

Winter riding this season is awesome, much nicer than dealing with heat,
mosquitos and blown out trails in the summer!  True, you lose daylight but
as Kurt pointed out, night riding is a blast and opens up a whole new
aspect to riding.  I also love the added technical difficulty of mud and
wet roots that can bring mellow trails up a notch.

The trails have been fast and tacky, and perfect building time!

Who would want to ride in Phoenix when we've got beautiful rain forest
country to ride in?


Tue, 13 Dec, 2011:

Stop Riding Your Bike So Much! (Mountain, Road, BMX, Dirt Jump)

Don't pull a Gene! Balance is the key to a happy life, but it is a constant battle for most of us. We become nearly obsessed with one or two things (a hobby and/or our career) and neglect important areas of our lives. I see this a lot with mountain bikers, especially those who race. Training so hard all they do is work, train and sleep compromising all other aspects of their lives so they can win that Cat 3 race on Sunday.

I am the poster child for someone who gets so carried away with a hobby that it consumes them and compromises their life. From 1986 until 1992 my life revolved around snowboarding, the next 10-15 years mountain biking.

My first love/obsession was snowboarding and it was my life for five years. To try and reach the top I left family, friends and a wonderful girlfriend on the East Coast to move to Colorado and train with the best coaches. Which ended up back firing on me as leaving these people behind put more pressure on me to succeed and left my "support group" back home in Virginia. I no longer had my mother telling me how wonderful I was everyday. I didn't have friends to hang out with and talk about things other than snowboarding (at one house a group of us lived in back east we had one rule, no talking about snowboarding in the house!), didn't have friends to help and didn't have friends to help me. Trust me, you gain a lot of confidence by spending time with your family and friends.

Then I discovered mountain bike racing, my second obsession which has lasted 20 years! Since the day I decided that I was going to become a pro racer I have practically dedicated my life to this sport! I remember thinking how "giving" I was to give my "girlfriend" two whole nights with me in a week! In quotes because she later said, "I wasn't your girlfriend, I was just the girl you hooked up with once or twice a week when you were too tired to train or work." ouch! To feed my habit I didn't work from early April until October so I could travel to all the races (by living in my van all summer) and worked two jobs in the winter to pay off my credit card from the summer. I honestly thought I was generous when I devoted two whole nights to her in a week! The last 7 years have been all about BetterRide with my family, friends and social life taking a backseat again.

The moral to this story is to keep things in perspective and remember, mountain biking is just your hobby! If you miss a day of training to help a friend or do poorly in race/group ride because you stayed up a little too late catching a band or going to a family function with your love, so what? It is just a bike ride/race, you aren't saving lives.

If you notice, I never quite made it to the top in snowboarding or mountain biking. One of the biggest reasons was my lack of balance. If you look at the best in the world they have balance! Steve Peat has a lot of fun, still lives near where he grew up, hangs out with old friends and has a wife and kids, the same can be said for Eric Carter. Lars Tribus has a great career away from cycling, has a family and still manages to be a very competitive professional racer (2011 World Masters Champion). As do some of the best moms and dads in the world. Many of our students are quite successful in their careers yet manage their time so they can spend time with their family, ride, travel and enjoy many hobbies.

As for me, 2012 will be all about balance! I have already re-started my yoga practice and I am making time for a social life and my family. I am riding less but enjoying it more!

I hope you already have balance in your life or will strive for balance starting today.

Create a happy, balanced life,



Fri, Nov 25, 2011:

Exotic New Brunswick: The Medium Trip

Special to National Post Nov 25, 2011 2:58 PM ET | Last Updated: Nov 25, 2011 3:38 PM ET

Adam McDowell

Why would anyone go mountain biking in Scottish garments? In part as a nod to heritage ... and in part as a laugh at danger.

By Adam McDowell

Im splattered with mud, bruised and cut and stained with fresh blood. Im mosquito-gnawed, smeared with tree sap, tired in the legs and audibly panting all after no more than 30 or 40 minutes on the trail. Oh, and I am decked out in a kilt for some reason.

Even in my sorry state, Kurt Gumushel invites me to share in a hearty gloat over the lily-livered mortals below.

This is past where the hikers go. A few of them do, but not many, says Kurt, co-principal of Off Kilter Biking Tours. The companys gimmick, just for the hell of it, is to outfit riders in a kilt specially designed for mountain biking tours around southwestern coastal New Brunswick. Kurts dad is a retired tailor and kilt maker. The duds are a cheeky wink to the Scottish heritage of St. Andrews By-the-Sea, where the company is based.

People like the sound of mountain biking in a kilt. It sounds dangerous, Kurt grins.

He is right to marvel at the view weve earned with some brief but hard toil on our bikes. Its a remarkable place: a difficult-to-reach plateau on a little-known island hiding a 90-minute ferry ride off the coast of a province few outsiders truly understand. If New Brunswick is unfairly overshadowed by Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and even Prince Edward Island, picturesque Grand Manan Island is even more underrated and unexplored.

But a new ferry, commissioned this summer, could solve the islands biggest tourism challenge: People stay away because it was notoriously hard to score a spot on the old boat. The $60-million Grand Manan Adventure is a relative behemoth, carrying 380 passengers and 80 vehicles.

Off Kilter offers a way to see the island slowly and from perspectives that practically cannot be reached any other way. Their physically demanding tours of Grand Manan by mountain bike bring you to places that, as Kurt points out, only hikers can reach and even then only after many hours of slogging.

The mischievous Kurt, who looks a lot like George Clooney, flirts and winks with any female hiker or cyclist we encounter. One part of the trail features an almost 90-degree slope just to the left of the trail, with a drop of perhaps five metres beneath. You wouldnt want to slip here. Kurt says he wants to buy a fake skeleton, dress it in a kilt and throw it off the side so he can show it to future customers and freak them out.

The other partner in Off Kilter is Geoff Slater. A visual artist on the side and the originator of the kilt idea, he is the Bert to Kurts Ernie. Although hes more serious, hes also a wit (Kurt: Im good at catching things that fly past. Geoff: Kurts good at catching things that itch.). The red-headed Ontarian, who moved to New Brunswick 11 years ago, is so hardcore that he takes the trail on a single-gear mountain bike.

The 27 gears at my disposal on the loaner bike dont make me look anywhere near as competent. My experience on bikes had previously been restricted to the streets of Toronto. I wipe out a few times, leading to the aforementioned scrapes and bruises. But its all part of the sport of mountain biking, which turns out to be a lot of fun if youre humble and not too sensitive to pain.

Kurt and Geoff offer patient and helpful advice for mastering the tricky task of keeping a bike upright across rocks, roots, sticks and mud. Its mentally quite difficult, but every once in a while I still manage to use a portion of my consciousness to enjoy the vista of meadows, pine forest and rocky cliffs.

My fellow guest, Todd May, owns a chain of bike stores in Florida and is visiting Canada for the first time. Hes deeply impressed by the challenge and beauty of the Grand Manan trail. My buddies would be freaking out. I need to bring some real riders up here, Todd says.

It is lovely. But between a burn in the legs and a lack of pep in the torso, my adrenalin is starting to lose the tug-of-war with fatigue. At the lunch break, I have two options: Keep going for another three hours on top of the two that have already wiped me out or drive back to St. Andrews to tool around its less challenging trails in the afternoon.

If I opt to keep going on Grand Manan, I could end up with no gas left in the tank but with several kilometres left to pedal. Id be a liability, and it would be humiliating. At the crossroads between a challenging but thoroughly enjoyable day out and (potentially) a downward spiral of pain and misery, I opt for the easier road.

Before leaving Grand Manan, we take a bit of a drive around the island. At Seal Cove, the beautifully weathered smokehouses along the beach attest to the fact that the area used to be one of the most important centres for smoked herring in North America. Nowadays they are sold as sheds for aquaculture equipment, but they still reek of smoke. After power bars and veggie wraps on a rock in the shadow of Swallowtail Lighthouse, the ferry ride back to the mainland affords an extended view of what appears to be a finback whale. Or so Im told. I snoozed right through it.

On the highway back to St. Andrews, the kilted bikers make a detour to Oven Head Salmon Smokers, where we pick up salmon jerky, lox and delicious salmon p⴩ in the little shop. Maybe its the fatigue talking, but the pieces of lox seem to melt on my tongue like no others Ive tried before.


Getting there
St. Andrews By-the-Sea is about 100 kilometres west of Saint John. The ferry to Grand Manan (see schedule at leaves from Blacks Harbour, about two-thirds of the way to St. Andrews from Saint John.

What to do
Off Kilter offers a range of kilted bike tours, from (relatively) tranquil rides to epic missions. Prices range from $60 to $600-plus per person. To book, email

Where to eat
In Ethel, between St. Andrews and Blacks Harbour, Oven Head Salmon Smokers ( makes exquisite salmon p⴩, lox and salmon jerky.

Travel support provided by New Brunswick Tourism.

Fri, 18 Nov 2011:
Cc: "" <>
From: Joyce Sampson <>
Subject: Re: [morca] Re: Road ID Discounts
To: "" <>
List-Subscribe: <>

I just want to encourage folks to get a Road ID.  It's a good idea b/c the basic  one can be used in any sport or activit which might result in an injury which makes u unable to convey key info to Ambulance teachs or ER such as blood type, allergies and existing conditions. I've had one since before I joined Morca but got a new one after joining b/c my med info had changed.  Mine has blood type, current meds, existing conditions, and med cov and plan #.


Tue 15 Nov 2011:

Words to the wise: Ride with a buddy

Having had the better part of a month+ to contemplate my own idiocy I thought I'd post it up here for hopefully one person to learn from.

As I have a somewhat unconventional working schedule I'm forced to do a lot of riding on my own. Mostly the Shore but with some Squamish rides, despite my advancing age I'm relatively new to MTBing coming from the road world.

A few weeks back I had a meeting midweek in the afternoon in Squamish in the late PM; great, that'll allow me to get a ride in in the late AM and have plenty of time to shower and eat in advance. I've done a fair bit of riding in Squamish this summer (mostly XC) so I thought I'd hit Half Nelson for a few rips, which I hadn't ridden since the late Spring. Hit the road in good time, got the mandatory coffee at Galileo, made my way up the road to the lot at the foot of Half Nelson. Beautiful fall day, cool but not cold, and the conditions are dry. In other words, perfect. Throw the Camelback on, and start the grind up the FSR to the trailhead.

Which is roughly where my memory ends.

I have vague memories after that. A frustrated ambulance attendant writing answers to the five questions I kept asking, over and over again, and putting the paper in my lap (think "Memento"). My wife appearing at Lions Gate, extremely concerned. Our friend Steve showing up for support (he's my usual riding buddy, and a critical care doctor to boot). A trip to the CAT scan to scan my head. Frustration and not remembering what happened, and at myself for worrying my family and kids. Damnit, I'm pushing 40 with three kids. What the hell was I doing?

What happened according to the people involved: I was found wandering Half Nelson in a daze (ironically by a couple of off-duty members of Squamish Search and Rescue). Martin and Katy walked me down to the foot of the trail, where I (wisely) decided I wasn't good to drive. Martin then kindly drove me in my truck to Corsa -- apparently I suggested going there as I'm friends with Dave and Sandra. Typical, I crash and the first thing I want to do is go to a bike shop. Dave drove me to Squamish hospital, where they decided my brain was so fried I needed a CAT scan at Lions Gate (they have no unit up in Squamish, hence the ambulance ride). From there it was the trip down, the diagnosis that I got a good knock but no permanent damage (insert jokes here), and I was sent on my fuzzy-but-merry way to recover at home.

If I had to guess, my suspicion is that I hit the little whoops too hot. Not slow enough to ride over, and I lost control in the air.

The helmet? A Giro XAR (now replaced). You can see the cracks in the foam on the inside, as well as full dents on the side of the helmet. Definitely saved my skull.

Big thanks:
-Martin and Katy. Without them I might have been still be wandering the woods of Squamish, or even worse like an outtake from "Deliverance". I don't recall even seeing any cars in the lot when I left, so I'm lucky anyone was on the trail. Even luckier they were SAR.
-Dave and Sandra, who drove me to the hospital, held onto my bike, drove my truck back to the North Shore, and generally acted like family.
-The ever-patient ambulance attendants.
-The great medical team at Lions Gate.
-Steve, my buddy the doctor who was able to both comfort my wife and really explain what was going on.
-Jared from OGC, who was kind enough to help me replace my helmet ASAP.
-My wife and family. I owe them a debt of gratitude, for indulging this as well as even letting me ride again.

So learn from the mistakes of an old man. Ride with a buddy or at times when there's lots of people out there. Seems obvious, but we all take shortcuts to sneak rides in. Don't be me.

Sun, 6 Nov 2011:
From: "Ted Stroll" <>
To: "'romp'" <>
Subject: RE: [ROMP] Snake excuses
List-Subscribe: <>, <>

If 100% guaranteed snake safety is going to become a criterion for mountain bike access, then we won't be allowed to ride on any trails in the Bay Area.
Occasionally I encounter a snake on a trail. Perhaps two or three times I've not been able to dodge it and have run it over. I'm happy to say, though, that to my best recollection the snake was uninjured each time. They seem to have a way of flattening themselves or miraculously dodging the tread knobs that protects them. I have yet to see a tire track running across a dead snake, and I've ridden perhaps 17,000 miles on Bay Area trails (a conservative estimate).
I'm a snake fancier and hope I never do injure or kill one. If I do, I'll feel bad for days. In fact, I regularly move them off trails when I find them on them, so that the next visitor doesn't harm them. That could include unwitting horses or malicious teenagers who want to kill them.
To put things in perspective, the East Bay Regional Park District has a liberal off-leash dog policy (which I favor), and I bet the dogs worry, harass, and kill snakes with abandon. I suspect that in dog havens like Redwood Regional Park, there's a 50-foot death zone alongside the trails and fire roads, which a few species can inhabit but many can't. I once had to get an owner to restrain large dogs at Redwood while I removed a snake from a fire road.
Bear in mind that we ride only the trails and not all over snake habitat. The trailbed is not that many square feet per linear mile. If a few snakes per year are killed by mountain bikes while crossing trails, that is extremely regrettable, and I hope it's balanced by snake rescues (removal operations off the trail) that I'm sure many of us perform. Any such net loss, however, has to be balanced against the beneficial effects of mountain biking, which include physical fitness, appreciation for wildlands, support for public park agencies, and too many others to list here.

From: [] On Behalf Of JS
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 6:58 AM
To: ROMP Group
Subject: Re: [ROMP] Snake excuses
Looking at the existing RR map,

The proposed Ancient Oaks Connector tr is the only new multi use trail proposed in this upcoming public meeting.
The "multi-use 4 mile loop" shown in the Mindego plan is already 1/2-3/4(roughly) in existence+in public use as part of Russian Ridge.

Also, on a more fearsome extrapolation of this proposal:

The open ended nature of this interpretation-implementation of mrosd trails (non)access potential.
If bikes are verboten from Mindego Ridge trail , even though it meets the criteria established in that it is outside the min protection(1,500 feet) demanded by the most restrictive Fully Protected endangered species rules.
This broad interpretation could be used to ban our ranks in the future, whether it be 1500ft,or 10,000 feet....
Food for thought fosho,

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Henry Pastorelli <> wrote:
I rode out to the "Guard Bull" sign and gat at the base of Mindego a long time ago. I remember a serious drop and then exiting out of MROSD Russian Ridge and riding aways on a private ranch road to get there. Is this ranch road the Mindego Ridge Trail being referred to? I'm  confused as surely the snakes would be smashed by all the lead footed residents/ranchers.
If this is a new trail could you still ride the ranch road to the Mindego Hill Trail and hike to the top from there?
For what it's worth I'll send a blurb to midpen once I'm enlightend.


From: Josh Moore <>
To: ROMP Group <>
Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 4:55:14 PM

Subject: Re: [ROMP] Snake excuses

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Josh Moore <> wrote:
> I am not a horse, but I do generally avoid at all costs stepping on a
> snake. Its innate, and I imagine that horses have this instinct as
> well.
> On the other hand, going up or downhill it it is relatively difficult
> to avoid running over a well camoflaged, relatively small snake lying
> perpendicular across the trail. Where a horse and hiker can stop and
> step over the snake, a cyclist must either stop in time or bunny hop.
> Generally cyclists are going faster and have less time to react.
> In this particular case, to my mind, this excuse has a valid reason
> for an unequal implementation. And generally speaking, I am for more
> trail of any kind. If they add 3 miles of hiker equestrian here, they
> should add 2 miles of multiuse somewhere else according to their own
> guideline.
> Josh

Fri, 4 Nov 2011:
Subject: Re: [ROMP] Snake excuses
From: Josh Moore <>
Cc: romp <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>

I once ran over a baby rattle snake at Arastradero. I have seen a San Francisco garter snake in the wild. While I agree it would be great if Mindego was open to bikes, they are in the business in resource protection.

If you look at the proposal going before the committee at 1pm on a weekday, they are adding another 4 mile loop to Russian ridge near Alpine Rd. This would be new wide singletrack open to bikes.

Long term I believe mrosd plans on opening trail from Purissima to HMB as they acquire lands in that area. Also, new trail in Sierra Azul will tip the balance back closer to 65% though it is lower than that now. It would be great if that proportion was easier to review.
On Nov 4, 2011 10:54 AM, "Ted Stroll" <> wrote:

The only way any of this will change at MROSD or EBRPD is for bike-positive people (not necessarily mountain bikers) to run for the board positions. East Bay mountain bikers are apathetic and have essentially zero interest in seeking the EBRPD board positions. Those positions seldom are challenged by anyone and the incumbents are returned to office year after year, and often enough decade after decade, without even appearing on the Alameda and Contra Costa ballots because they are unopposed. It's amazing.

From: JS <>

To: romp <>

Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [ROMP] Snake excuses


Thing is, looking back 10 yrs, this seems to be the tact for excluding pedalers within mrosd lands.

The 7 preserve closures around 02  was to preserve(fuzzy logic) the tranquility of the other trails users.

 La Honda Creek OSP(5739 acres) was to preserve the cattle's tranquility, and mrosd used the same"somewhere down the road" strategy to exclude our ranks(maybe a future ridge trail option,blah,blah)

Take a look at the current map of LHCr osp, very depressing....

Now , it's a hazy possible endangered species protection(although on this particular ridge top, what we are talking about what is essentially a ranch road, on high ground(grass meadows),w unlimited line of sight for what I consider an excellent shared trail status candidate.Pretty much exactly the same style of trails located on Russian Ridge(and are all open for shared use).

What really chafes my hide, is the unequal trails protection strategy by mrosd(a publicly funded agency) that has,so far,excludes pedalers from all new trails proposed since the 7 preserve closure,while including 1000+lb ,many times unpredictable,stock animal+rider on this very same terrain .

I seem to remember mrosd saying that they will maintain a 60% open to bikes, 40% closed policy after the 7 preserve closure....still waiting to see that BS occur.

Quote from mrosd

"MROSD has approved reduction of trails open to bikes from 78% of all trails to 60-65% of all trails".

If there was a  fair execution of this noble "protect potentially ranging" endangered species that held horse+rider accountable to the same standard as we pedalers, I would see at least some sense of fairness in this doctrine.



On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Ted Stroll <> wrote:

In the East Bay Regional Park District the antibike rationale rests on a different species, the Alameda whipsnake. There has not been a single report, however, of a dead whipsnake being run over by a bike, and someone once told me he saw a whipsnake that had been cut in half by one of the bulldozers that regularly roam EBRPD lands to plow the environmentally unfriendly fire roads. The real problems at EBRPD are the continual meddling of the reactionary east bay Sierra Club chapter, the propensity of some EBRPD staff to overinterpret and overapply every state and federal regulation, and the fact that some on the board of directors are friends with the ever-dwindling ranks of wealthy elderly equestrian women who detest bicycles (and perhaps youth and the middle-aged generally). No one on the EBRPD board has any first-hand experience of riding a bicycle on a trail (their average age may be 75 y/o).

From: Ross Finlayson <>


Cc: romp <>

Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:46 PM

Subject: [ROMP] Re: [PenMtnBike] Agenda Posted for the Mindego Gateway Project Trail Use Meeting

Note Midpen's latest rationale for closing trails to bikes: Protection of the San Francisco Garter Snake.



The house of cards is beginning to fall. All it takes is one honest person....


From: Monica Craver <>
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:19:41 -0700
Subject: Bike Magazine still endorses poaching trails

This letter by a mountain biker was written back in 2004 to Bike Magazine. He posted it on this forum in 2006. Seems that Bike Magazine has not yet learned this lesson in 2011 with their Poaching as a "morally right" thing to do:

The letter against poaching, by a mountain biker:
MultiRider 02-10-2006 05:21 PM

Poaching trails
Bike Magazine ran an editorial about a year ago that basically endorsed poaching trails because it was irrisistable. I ran across a letter to the editor that I sent to them in response and wanted to share it with all y'all. I hope those tempted to poach will consider the impact to our sport.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Mason
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:54 PM
Subject: Moral dilemmas

I read Rob Story's editorial on poaching closed trails. I was disappointed, dismayed, and annoyed by the content. And extremely displeased that you printed it. I meant to write to tell you these things when I read it, but lost track of it.

More recently, I read Marshall Henderson's letter on the topic, which was well written and hits the nail on the head. I really thought an apology would be forthcoming from your staff. The editor's response was as bad or worse than the original editorial.

Poaching trails is NOT a moral dilemma. A moral dilemma is an issue that requires deep thought and consideration about what is the right thing to do. Thinking people of integrity wrestle with moral dilemmas. An example is capital punishment - is it right to kill someone for killing someone? Punishing a person by doing to them that which you have labeled wrong is a contradiction. Yet it is likely to protect society from further killings by a remorseless person. THAT is a moral dilemma.

Poaching trails is wrong. A trail that is closed to bikes does not present a moral dilemma - it presents a temptation. A person of integrity notes the trail, perhaps the temptation, and rides on by. A person of integrity has their thoughts, beliefs, and actions in alignment. I'm not a professor of ethics or doctor of psychology, but I believe this to be an important distinction. There is no struggle between right and wrong on this issue. Poaching trails is wrong. Contrary to Rob's article, there are many people who do the right thing and do not poach trails (including me and those I ride with and, I'm sure others who read your magazine).

Poaching trails leads to trail closures. In Colorado, park rangers note knobby marks on closed trails and hiker-only trails. Those become input into decisions to close more trails or entire parks. If mountain bikers can't follow the rules, then they will be banned.

So let me refine my position slightly: poaching trails does lead to a moral dilemma. But it is on the part of the park custodians. If most bikers obey the rules but some do not, should all bikers be banned? Is it fair to ban all due to the actions of a few? Well, when the "few" become the "many", the answer becomes "yes, ban them all". Dilemma solved, innocent bikers banned due to the actions of the trail poachers.

I didn't save Rob's article and therefore don't have it in front of me for reference, but my recollection is that, while he discussed the consequences of poaching trails, he certainly did not condemn poaching. He took more of a "if you don't get caught it's okay" attitude (which works for a particular person at the time, but still negatively impacts the biker community at large unless the ride(s) wipe away their tire marks). Sure, he was honest about the fact that some bikers poach trails. And he made some attempt to point out the consequences. But his article and your editor's response ("a very real moral dilemma" and "you're missing the point") are doing mountain bikers everywhere a great disservice. I hope you will re-think your position and take the stand that poaching is wrong.

Is poaching a temptation? Yes. A moral dilemma? No. To be engaged in or tolerated by mountain bikers? NO!! To be condoned or excused either implicitly or explicity by the best mountain biking publication in existence? Please! A thousand times NO!!!

Thank you for your attention.

Jim Mason


[Re: The "Wooooohoooooo!!!" Attitude


It occurs to me that this post really sums up mountain bikers' attitude toward the world: It exists solely for their titillation, PERIOD. Isn't that the attitude of an infant, before it learns that there is a whole world outside its own skin?


Mon, 11 Jul 2011:
Cc:, ROMP <>,
        "Monterey Off-Road Cycling Association (MORCA)" <>
Subject: Re: [ROMP] RE: [mbosc] 2nd Sunday of the Month Soquel Demo Forest Ride
List-Subscribe: <>, <>

Wooooohoooooo!!! That was fun and a fun group :) Just wished Cody could have joined us but understand why he wasn't there. Thanks for taking care of the details Daryl, your always fun to ride with!



[His peers will undoubtedly teach him to keep his mouth shut from now on, like everyone else. They can't have someone actually telling the truth! It will upset their whole applecart.... Mike]
Sat, 25 Jun 2011:
Subject: More Unsustainable mountain bike trails...

Mountain biking is unsustainable in the rainsforests of BC. A mountain biker questions "sustainable" trail building, mountain bike-style!

North Shore Mountain Biking Forums (
- The Shore (
- - Trail building (

thewwkayaker 06-25-2011 11:51 AM

Trail building
OK I'll admit I'm not an expert in trail building. I've built a house and understand some basic principles but perhaps I'm missing something so perhaps the experts can help me.

First thing I learned when building my house was to keep wood, even treated wood, away from dirt especially in our climate.

So can someone explain why, when I took a walk down Pink Starfish, that the DNV trail builders built a structure (bridge) and then pack it with dirt? Will that not speed up rotting? I suspect it's a split tree (like a slippery log) and would have needed grip added but dirt? And perhaps I'm not understanding something but when water is added to dirt, ignoring the quick rotting that will take place, does it not create thick mud that is terrible to ride in? I didn't check if there was drain holes made - I admit I was just astonished that anyone would build a dirt trail in the air that I forgot to do a full review of the structure.

My only other question is, with all this love of dirt, again when you add water does it not produce thick mud? I believe one builder has been quoted in saying it's like riding in peanut butter when it's wet. How long will that last? How fun is that to ride in (IMHO it wasn't but perhaps I'm not use to it yet).

Anyway I'm just looking to understand the new building practices.


[This is the true mentality of mountain biking. Mike]
Quotes:" The beauty of mountain bikes is that the whole world is a giant skatepark or ski field."

"Lines Disease is something that many mountain bikers suffer from...dreaming of theoretical singletrack.

"There is freedom in mountain biking but often the trail restricts that adventure and exploration."

"Mountain bikes are all terrain vehicles but they can't go everywhere. Which is why when we do get a chance to carve open turns wherever we please there is great joy."

"Freeriding isn't just about riding skinnies and rolling fatties. It's about the freedom to go anywhere and do whatever you please. Racer aero tuck freerider styles."

"Just a breathing sigh that mountain biking, for me and many, is a freedom to go wherever we choose."


[Mountain bikers LOVE censorship, and HATE hearing the truth! Mike]

From: Robert <>
List-Subscribe: <>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:26:48 -0700
Subject: helmets - uhhggg

People -

This helmet debate needs to stop. Its mute. To wear or not, does not
affect others. The decision maker
alone reaps the benefits of wearing, or suffers the consequences of not.

When one crashes and bashes their brains sans a helmet, my head does not
receive injury. Its their injury alone.

In this society that is the bottom line. We have no right to infringe
on others decisions
if the consequences of those decisions only affect the decision maker.


the only exceptions are those who cannot make rational, informed decisions
eg. kids, mentally impaired etc.....

All readers of this list know this. So lets talk something relevant.
your fastest time to the top of Tiger? or should we be riding the South
Tiger trails
despite their 'hiking' status etc...


[Mountain bikers don't like rules! Mike]

From: brian _ <>
List-Subscribe: <>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:12:40 +0000
Subject: RE: Preachers and helmets

  90% of accidents that happen at home are in the washroom... bottom line, showers are not safe!  as a matter of fact I dare speculate that crashes that result in head and neck injuries in the shower are at least 10 times to the 10th power more frequent than accidents resulting in head injuries caused by sneaky drafters.
  i contend that Washington State pass mandatory showering crash helmet, neck immobilizer, chest protector, shoulder pad and safety restraint laws immediately and there should be intense peer pressure to use washroom safety gear for every trip in to the washroom, after all, what if a loved one slipped and broke his neck brushing his or her teeth...

   I once cut my self self shaving,  without my crash helmet, first-aid kit and 911 i could have died... so no, anybody that would dare use the wash room (for even a second) without safety gear is an asshole and they do not deserve to use a shower, they give all baithers a bad name and should be chastised and shunned. 
† Also, we know what's best for them....


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:15:07 +0200
Subject: Re: Preachers and helmets

On Jun 14, 2011, at 18:40, Rolland Waters <> wrote:

> I argued once based on anecdotal evidence, and it turns out I was right!

If you want to argue formal logic, it only takes one counterexample to prove a hypothesis wrong, right?

So when the hypothesis is "riding without a helmet is safe in some situations", it only takes one friend ending up in the hospital with short term memory malfunction and being told he might well be dead if he had not worn a helmet to tell me that riding without a helmet is not safe. I have more than one friend who's gotten life-saving service from their helmet.

The thing is, we all do some things that aren't totally safe. Riding with a helmet isn't entirely safe either. And we all make our own calls. My call is to wear my helmet all the time.



[Notice how Stroll blames illegal mountain biking on the land manager! Mountain bikers never take responsibility for their own actions, nor respect other people's views. Mike]

From: "Ted Stroll" <>
To: <>
Subject: Calero Trails Master Plan Open House Announcement!
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 11:37:35 -0700

There's also an alternate-days trail in Tennessee, as I recall, as well as the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Trail east of Seattle.  Also, of course, a small part of the Tahoe Rim Trail.

You might want to send those links to the county parks staff.  I have no problem with it.  The equestrians have a point that some of them fear to ride anyplace they might encounter a bike and Calero is the only place left in the county where that's not a risk.  Of course it's their own fault for not training their horses adequately, but against that, one has to consider how the horses get trained.  They must be "green" at some point no matter how intent the owner is in habituating the horse to bicycles.

Actually, if we had a regional mountain biking organization, we could try to fashion an accord whereby we'd agree to alternate-day use at Calero and the equestrians would agree to push for alternate-day use on some of the no-bikes singletrack in the East Bay Regional Park District.  (They're afraid to ride it anyway because cyclists ride on it illegally all the time, which is understandable given the foolishness of the EBRPD no-bikes rules, which invite disrespect for the law.)  Alas, we don't have such an entity, and who would have the time to take on this project?  Not I.

I hope the parks staff will let us survey the Calero trails on a few designated days so we can see what it is we're talking about.



Sat, 28 May 2011:
List-Subscribe: <>
Subject: Re: Big Finn jump area razed" The Fun Police"

The fun police huh.

You guys are our fun police too. I like some stunt and jumps sometimes too but not enough to endanger a good riding areas access.

The County does not want jumps and wood stunts.
They seem to want it to be as natural as possible. They are jerks.That's that's way it has always been. At least for the last 18 years.

Why do people think they can alter one of the few wooded areas left. Built that stuff on you own private land.

You stunt and jump people have been our fun police for years we are also tired of having to clean up your messes.
The vast majority of mt bikers ride cross country style, we are lucky to have Finnhill /Saint Edwards state park.


The majority of us are again in jeopardy of losing singletrack again. I have cleaned up you messes time and time again. Why do you think Fu#### King county is so willing to let the dam fire dept bulldoze our trails. They are tired of paying people to clean up your messes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan O'Connell <>
To: Doug Scheer <>
Cc: Karen Hewig <>; voiceux <>
Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: Big Finn jump area razed

Those jumps have been there for years. Wacky...

On May 22, 2011, at 8:01 PM, Doug Scheer wrote:

> I say that should be the next work party. If we can fix a wet area
> surely we can build jumps. Once again the government is saving us
> from ourselves. Take all the fun away until there is nothing to do.
> Thanks,
> Doug Scheer
> On May 22, 2011, at 7:49 PM, "Karen Hewig" <> wrote:
> > Unfortunately this sloppy work is King County and my boys and I
> are heartbroken. My six year-olds comment when he saw the disaster
> was "mom, I think this is a time when swearing is appropriate". How
> could I not agree with him? We live a block from this area and both
> of my boys started riding there when they were three. My boys have
> grown up at this jump section and now our favorite family activity
> has been taken away without notice.
> > Karen
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: voiceux
> > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 5:38 PM
> > Subject: Big Finn jump area razed
> >
> > The fun police strike again. The small jump area on the east side
> of Juanita Dr. near the ballfields (just upslope from the nice
> bridge we built last year) has been completely removed. Every hint
> of an entertaining feature is just gone. There are new trees planted
> and logs placed indicating that No Fun Is To Take Place Here Ever
> Again. I don't know if this is a King County action or resident
> vigilante activity--it looks a little sloppy to be official, but you
> never know. It's now appropriate for toddlers and old ladies.
> Boooooo. PLEASE let's not allow this to happen in St. Eds'/Big Finn
> on the west side of Juanita Drive.

Sat, 19 Feb 2011
From: stripes <>
To: ken <>
Cc: "Monterey Off-Road Cycling Association \(MORCA\)" <>
Subject: Re: [morca] Re: Sat am ride
List-Unsubscribe: <>

I'm jealous. I haven't been able to ride since Feb 9 (ACL surgery).

Enjoy the time on the ride :)


On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:53:56AM -0800, ken wrote:
> Well, ya'll missed out.  Light showers, bitter cold at the start.
> Wet, numb fingers, rain jacket on.....  But I had the place to
> myself.  Not a soul seen.  Once under the trees the rain eased up and
> then quit.  Temps came up a bit and fingers felt better.  In the wet
> it's more challenging than usual with the roots and trees being so
> slick.  Muds not really an issue, just fun in a few spots.
> Anyway, its feels good getting out.....
> KC

Wed, 16 Feb 2011:
Cc: "" <>
From: Josh Moore <>
Subject: Re: [ROMP] Coe ride on for the 21st
To: "" <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>

Many people Charles, Val, Fred, have expressed interest in this ride and it should be awesome.

I unfortunately cannot ride - I broke my wrist on Sunday on Braille.

Id be happy to help with a route or routes if need be.


25 Jan 2011:

Riders In The Storm

Snaking and Sliding

Words by Riley McIntosh. Photos by John Gibson.

For us there isnít much of anything to say at the moment. We are stopped on a small rise in the trail, the rain falling down on us. There is so much water in the air that the forest is obscured. Around us dark tree trunks stand like towers in the mist.


The trail beneath us, and leading away from us down into the sodden forest, is a strip of dark chocolate dirt framed by bright neon green salmon berry leaves. They capture rivulets of water that pool before pouring down like small waterfalls onto the trail. Every protruding root and stone shines as if polished, smiling up from the ground. Water descends from the heavens to the earth all around us.

Our breath rises in steaming clouds, and there is water pouring from our hair down onto our chins, into our mouths, running down our necks and down our backs. We are sitting on our bikes, one foot on the ground, the other on the pedal. Our bikes are covered in globs of mucky dirt, nomadic chunks of soil that have come along for the ride.


There is a small river of water running down the trail ahead of us. Mist shrouds the woods, the atmosphere is otherworldly. Far below I can see the cozy glimmer of town. I can imagine the warmth inside the houses, folk making dinner or sitting around the fire.


Our tires have been exploring the fine line between tracking and traction, snaking and sliding over twisting roots and slippery boulders, our grip to the earth dictated by this rough and off-camber trail. Our bikes with us upon them have been moving downwards at a rate of speed that feels as fast as weíve ever gone. It is as if we are racing the raindrops. They are falling and we are flying; downwards through this wet and wild forest as dusk descends. We ride down the trail like chased animals and our hoots and hollers must sound primeval amongst the shadows and fading light. Tree branches absorb the sound of our passage and even as we ride it is hard to tell if the rushing in our ears is our tires impacting against the earth, or the patter of the rain; or perhaps there is silence. Our senses are both heightened and dulled at once, like riding in a tunnel.


We have stopped for this moment but we both know there is no good reason to stop. When the familiar act of riding becomes extraordinary, stopping could break the spell.


Earlier in the day, before the ride, I had begun to feel apprehensive when thick black rain clouds stormed into the sky and began depositing rain with a furious intensity. I waited for the call, almost hoping to pick up and hear excuses. However, it was the opposite, our friend Newman was ready to drive us up the mountain, the day was getting on, and a reference to our manhood was tossed into the slightly static airspace of our phone connection.

For us, paused here amidst this torrent, with night coming on, we are doing something that makes us feel unique. For some reason we are not all that cold, and our riding has not been hampered by these conditions; our bikes are flying, and we upon them are carving and diving like charging men of battle. We are dashing through thick mud and uneven terrain, our speed through this sodden land almost mythical, impossible. We are hot objects in this storming afternoon, and are halfway down the trail.


My riding partner, without a word, breaks this rainstorm reverie. Instantly riding in battle stance, solid on his bike, ready to absorb obscured impacts. I follow closely and we are again storming down this trail on this strange evening. Immediately we are faced with a slick rock strewn steep section that leads into a tight, root-infested corner, but we skip like thrown rocks downwards, at high speed, with no problem. In front of me my riding partner takes an absurd leap, airing upwards and outwards, his tires at first skimming over wet gnarly surfaces and then spanning a gap between the solid earth as the land falls away. Without thinking I pull off from that same point; flying into the air, raindrops stealing my vision. I feel as though I am in the air forever, slippery things grinning up at me from beneath. Ahead, my comrade has already landed and is sliding into the next corner. I land with no hindrance, in a tumult of spraying puddles and soft earth that gives way beneath my tires. I slide into the corner going fast, and dirt and water is flying everywhere. It feels as though there are people lining the edge of the trail hurling buckets of sopping organic material at us.

It is like there is a band of energy holding us together. It is getting dark, it is raining so hard we can barely see. We are riding our bikes in a reckless fashion down a slick trail riddled with obstacles. But for some reason we are not slowing down, we are not taking the danger into consideration. It feels as though we have crossed the barrier of gravity and become unified with the trail.


Too soon we reach the bottom and while I am soaked to the skin I feel a sharp pang of disappointment. At the same time I am euphoric. We approach the waiting truck parked like a glowing beacon, coasting, our suspension absorbing the final small bumps, the night sky a black frown scarred by lightning.


Few words are exchanged as we load the mud soaked bikes.


But for a moment, I catch my riding partnerís eye, and we exchange a glance that is communicative in the way the lightning in the sky tells us there is a storm tonight. Obvious. Like rain, like our downward passage this evening. It is natural for us to be out here, experiencing this. It is natural for us to pause for only a brief moment on the entire descent, to talk little, to ride hard and fast. For us, we have simply reaffirmed something that we already know.


Tue, 25 Jan 2011:
From: Zach Kaplan <>
To: Richard Sheng <>
Subject: Re: [Ebbc-Talk] Crossing Richmond-San Rafael
List-Subscribe: <>,
On 25 Jan 2011, at 10:45, Richard Sheng wrote:

*And while I'm at it, why are cycles forbidden on escalators?  When I

disembarked at Embarcadero, all the cyclists needed to wait while 

the stairs

were taken up by pedestrians who chose not to take the escalator.  

Bikes on

escalators is not unsafe.  It is a simple matter of clinching your 


while keeping the bike on the escalator.*


A stupid law. Just do it. IME, worst that will happen is a station 

agent or BART police will tell you not to next time.





Ebbc-Talk mailing list


Thu, 20 Jan 2011:


CW - How many times in the last year have you been to see a physician? And why?

Lorraine Blancher - I have been riding my bike and pushing my ability (in many sports) for years and I love the fact that I have no broken bones. I say that to inspire young rippers pushing it (and to keep them safe), not jinx myself.   I donít want to be hurt and spend time on the bench. It sucks. Last year saw my first major injury and it was tough. At the Crankworx Gala I completely blew apart my knee: ACL, MCL, medial and lateral meniscus, and the kicker was a 2.5 cm lesion, a.k.a. a ďpotholeĒ in the bottom of my femur. It was so bad that there was no way I could function without major reconstruction surgery.  The rest of the year was prehab, surgery, rehab and then a devastating re-tear. After a winter of healing, I got too excited and forgot to wear a brace kite boarding in Maui; I blindly stepped into an off-camber hole while walking with my kite and pop! I was devastated.  It set me back a couple months, but thankfully it is only an ACL. Surgery can wait for a few years and until then, itís all the biking and skiing I want! Advanced technology and modern science is amazing.


Thu, 20 Jan 2011:
From: BTCEB <>
Subject: [BTCEB Talk] BTCEB Buzz - News & Events - January 20th


The land is described as deep canyons, with shade and woodland and will be familiar with those who have ventured off the exposed bits of the existing Garin/Dry Creek parks. The two main sensitivities are archaeological and biological. Archaeologically, the area has several artifacts from 2000 years of native use and EBRPD will be hiring an archaeological consultant. Biologically, it's our usual frog and snake friends. A pain though they are, they're also the main reason why the Stonebrae parcels ended up in the EBRPD's hands.



Newt Guy

FrostyStruthers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010

Posts: 768


Originally Posted by socal_jack

Obama reversed the Bush "No more Wilderness" policy for the BLM, it will once again have sole authority to set aside whatever BLM lands it deems as deserving Wilderness protection designation. Expect the Sierra Club and like minded organizations to immediately start lobbying to end MTBs on public lands.

Meaningless news really. The ninny war was over a long, long time ago. Can you guess who lost?

Just make more trails. That is what we do.


Posted Fri 14 Jan, 1:54 pm UTC Flag as inappropriate

I love cycling, but couldn't give a flying fish about my carbon footprint.

If you do, then let me know what you're doing about it, and I'll offset you by starting the van up.